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4D Chess
 
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loki_clock

USA US New Mexico
PostYou have posted in this forum: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:58 pm   Post subject:  4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

This said it was for suggestions, so I'll post it here, if this is the wrong place, feel free to move it. You know how only the most elite of nerds play 3D Chess? Well, if you made a fourth-dimensional version of Chess, not only would it serve as a building block to more complex games and help better understand the fourth dimension in terms of relative direction, but you could pretty much win any contest of intellect by beating someone at a game the other player can't even begin to understand.

Do you think it would be easier or harder to make than the first-person shooter? And does it sound like something you'd want to make? To me, it sounds like it'd be easier to make, but harder to understand...

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southa

United Kingdom UK Cambridgeshire
PostYou have posted in this forum: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:04 pm   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

I think that chess would be easier to program because it wouldn't have to generate a high frame rate. Would be tricky to understand though. I guess you could make the board a bit smaller (say 4x4x4x4) to help. Probably not something I'd do myself - I like working with the smooth rotations and motion in 4D.

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loki_clock

USA US New Mexico
PostYou have posted in this forum: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:55 pm   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

Hmm... what about some kind of gongyl game? 4D tennis or "Don't Touch the Ground" would be awkward, with the way the default controls are set up, but that can be easily remedied...

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Radio
PostYou have posted in this forum: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:13 am   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

A four dimensional Chess board would have to be an 8x8x8 box, set so that one uses four times as many pieces, with the exception of the king, extra pawns taking it's place. It's important to specify what the fourth dimension is. If it's time, then it has to be realistic. The type of 4d chess suggested by Star Trek's Bloodwing voyages (yes, Iím a nerd) has pieces as timed out objects. for instance, one could time out a rook, specifying how many turn it will be out and where it will reappear, and then removing the rook from the board until it times back in. timing out a piece consumes a turn, and one can time out as many pieces as they want in a single turn, if they are willing to give their opponent free moves. Also, it might be important to dictate how a three dimensional board would affect the movement of difficult pieces like knights, but those are mere technical details. E-mail me at radiocoombs@yahoo.com to tell me if Iím on to a good thing here, or I'm just a bloody idiot....

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loki_clock

USA US New Mexico
PostYou have posted in this forum: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:24 pm   Post subject:   Reply with quoteBack to top 

Guest wrote (View Post): › It's important to specify what the fourth dimension is. If it's time, then it has to be realistic.

Assume that if it's being posted in this forum, that the fourth dimension is not time.

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Radio
PostYou have posted in this forum: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:28 am   Post subject:  4d chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

Then how would relative motion apply to a turn-based game like chess? Each peice moves one space per turn, but you specify where the motion will end? that would have to be computer based, because not even the most elite could keep track of 32 to 256 peices all moving at the same time... Ideas, guys?

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loki_clock

USA US New Mexico
PostYou have posted in this forum: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:10 pm   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

Well, it's obviously not at ONCE. It's turn-based. And you keep track the same way you keep track in regular chess, by seeing where things are in relation to your pieces, to tell if you are in danger. While in 2D chess you cross from square to square, in 3D chess, you cross from cube to cube (though usually just multiple planar levels). So, in 4D chess, you would move from tesseract to tesseract inside an 8x8x8x8 (or smaller) grid. You move in patterns in Chess, anyway, not in spaces. Your Knight moves two spaces along one axis, then another space along any other axis. An L-Shape. Also, it's easy to figure out how pieces would be arranged by the same method we use to relate properties of the second dimension to the third to find out what the 4D equivalent is. Two rows, 2/8ths, in 2D Chess. Two slabs, 2/8ths, in 3D chess. Thus, one 1/8th slice of the bulk on either end will be used for the home row, where all the major units surround the King and Queen, and another 1/8th slice of the bulk filled with pawns, guarding the major units. It's purely formulaic.

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Radio
PostYou have posted in this forum: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:03 am   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

um. i'm not sure i understood all of that, but i get the idea. what i mean is, if one were to introduce relative motion to a regular chess board, for instance, wouldn't that be tough? for instance, a rook moves in straight lines, so if you moved a rook all the way across the board, it would take seven turn for that rook to move seven spaces. you see what i mean? ten you would have a bunch of peices all moving at cross purposes, extending the strategy game to not just anticipating an opponents moves, but an entire stategy before you even begin playing to avoid suiciding peices. I'd love to play it though, cause most people wouldn't even understand it... also, as chess peices move, they dont move in patterns at all. they simply move more than one space at a time. a bishop doesn't move one space on a diagonal, she moves up one, over one. understand? furthermore, peices in the way are not afected by this motion because she moves two spaces in the time it takes a pawn to move one. the same idea applies to kinghts. a kight is on horseback, so he moves even faster: up 2, over one, or over one, up 2. see how relative motion would screw this up?

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loki_clock

USA US New Mexico
PostYou have posted in this forum: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:45 pm   Post subject:   Reply with quoteBack to top 

Guest wrote (View Post): ›
um. i'm not sure i understood all of that, but i get the idea. what i mean is, if one were to introduce relative motion to a regular chess board, for instance, wouldn't that be tough? for instance, a rook moves in straight lines, so if you moved a rook all the way across the board, it would take seven turn for that rook to move seven spaces. you see what i mean? ten you would have a bunch of peices all moving at cross purposes, extending the strategy game to not just anticipating an opponents moves, but an entire stategy before you even begin playing to avoid suiciding peices. I'd love to play it though, cause most people wouldn't even understand it... also, as chess peices move, they dont move in patterns at all. they simply move more than one space at a time. a bishop doesn't move one space on a diagonal, she moves up one, over one. understand? furthermore, peices in the way are not afected by this motion because she moves two spaces in the time it takes a pawn to move one. the same idea applies to kinghts. a kight is on horseback, so he moves even faster: up 2, over one, or over one, up 2. see how relative motion would screw this up?

First of all, it can only take a rook a maximum of 3 turns to move anywhere on an otherwise empty 4D chess board, and that's if it's a tripple diagonal.

Also, I'm pretty sure the bishop's movements aren't supposed to contain any connotation whatsoever of two different steps being taken for every move... I'm quite certain it's just supposed to be a diagonal. Also, how was the motion not relative before? The knight can move in any direction, as long as it follows the L pattern. It's not like he has to advance with every move, always going UP two, then over one. He can move over two, then up or down one. Down two, then over one. He has no limitations, except that it maintains the pattern of two spaces along one axis, then one space along a perpendicular axis.

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Radio
PostYou have posted in this forum: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:43 am   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

This is really fascinating. Can you send me some details on what you plan to write? I may have some suggestions later once i fully understand what you're trying to do. Beyond that, I need you to explain what you mean when you say you want to introduce this new "Demension" as relative motion; I maintain that it is not a demension at all, but merely a different aspect of basic 3d motion. regardless, I may be totally wrong, and i dont want to bugger myself by saying something stupid (If i haven't already). PLEASE send me some more info, dude...

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loki_clock

USA US New Mexico
PostYou have posted in this forum: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:16 am   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

I was really tired when I wrote that e-mail, so I could probably make it much shorter for you. Have you read it already?

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loki_clock

USA US New Mexico
PostYou have posted in this forum: Sat May 31, 2008 1:43 am   Post subject:   Reply with quoteBack to top 

Here is a Wikipedia article on cubic chess, a generalization of a 2D chess board to 3D:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_chess

4D people would play this cubic chess game as a flat chess board, and if they wanted to add a full dimension of height to their chess game they would stack eight of these cubic boards on top of each other like we do to make their flat chess board. This tesseract board is likewise the flat chessboard of 5D persons, and so on and so forth. Since we don't need a simulated 4D environment to play cubic chess, we would here be primarily interested in tesseractic chess. That's what I was trying to describe in that letter. Hopefully it's easier to understand what I was getting at after reading that article!

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cederhoj
PostYou have posted in this forum: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:20 pm   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

4D chess sounds fun and all you realy have to do is add another dimesion to 3d chess. I have to ask tho, how do you plan to show it on a cumputer screen. Altho we you can esely program a chess that will give you a 4D system, showing it is a big problem as wee liv in 3D.

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Guest
PostYou have posted in this forum: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:18 am   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

If I actually made it I would probably use the Mushware 4D engine, but give it a wider depth of 4D field (like the fish-eye scanner) so that you can see, faintly, all the spaces on the board at once, and you just rotate around to get a better view of a particular area.

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Iwize sol
PostYou have posted in this forum: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:42 pm   Post subject:  Re: 4D Chess Reply with quoteBack to top 

ok, now i like messing with the cube, but truly, i barley understand what it is that im actually doing....

that said i think, maybe you should try Checkers first.
( less rules to programme)
later

Iwisesol

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